Questions and Answers at ‘Abolish Abortion In Idaho’ Seminar – Part 3 of 4 Part Series
By Rich Loudenback
On Monday, Nov. 18th the ‘Abortion Human Rights Act’ (AHRA) was presented to a large audience of devout Christians at the Candlelight Church in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho by co-sponsors of the Idaho bill, Dist. 2, Rep. John Green & Dist. 1 Rep. Heather Scott. Their presentation was preceded by Sagle, Idaho activist Scott Herndon’s remarks.
Representative Green stated in an interview prior to the event that he has been pro-life his entire life and he realizes the attitude of the pro-life movement really has been one of being lukewarm and taking half measures. “But when I came across the abolitionist movement with regard to abortion, I realized this is the only answer,” said Green. “It’s time to say no to abortion it’s time to start it right here in Idaho. And our ‘Abortion Human Rights Act,’ if we can get passed, will be a step toward that measure for ending the scourge of abortion in Idaho and America.”
When asked if he feels they have much support down in south Idaho he answered, “We do. Sadly, the people that are fighting us right now seem to be the so-called quote, unquote, ‘pro-life movement.’ And we can’t figure out why they’re fighting us. Again, this is not a half measure, this is it, no more abortion. Make it illegal overnight. I just can’t imagine why anybody that professes to be pro-life would be against it”
The speakers’ comments were presented in the first 3 of this 4 part series.
See their articles:
“AHRA bans abortion through Idaho’s murder laws because abortion is murder.” – Part 1, Scott Herndon
“The Legal Perspective on Abortion being Murder in Idaho: Support the AHRA” – Part 2, Rep. John Green, JD
“The AHRA Would Accomplish in One Day What Pro-Life Groups Have Tried to Accomplish for Years” – Part 3, Rep. Heather Scott
After their presentations the attendees were invited to ask some questions:
Abortion is Murder Q&A:
After repeating that 2109 babies were killed the day of this meeting in the US, Pastor Paul Vanoy invited those in attendance to ask questions of the speakers.
Question #1: What if delivering a live baby will kill the mother? Should the decision be made to abort the baby to save the mother’s life?
John Green: “My mother was a registered nurse for 40 years and 30 of those years were as a labor and delivery nurse. She witnessed thousands of babies being born, including many of her own grandchildren. She told me that never was there a situation in all of her 30 years of labor and delivery that unless you killed the baby the mother would die. Dr. Ron Paul, who delivered over 5000 babies basically said the same thing.
“I think the problem is there is this misconception about what kind of facts and circumstances might lead to that. If there is a case where that would happen it is rare in my understanding where a tubal is an errant ectopic pregnancy, for example, the baby is usually already dead, so complications such as an infection or for some other reason there is little chance of killing the baby because the baby already died.
“In cases where there is some medical condition that the doctor might have to perform a surgical procedure or administer a particular type of medication that might put the baby at risk the doctors have to look at what the intent of what they’re doing is. Obviously, doctors would love to save both of the patient’s because there are two patients here they are dealing with. So if they can do something to do that, great! If not, if they’re doing for one, something to say that patient’s life, and this is part of the triage process in emergency rooms and on battlefields where doctors have to prioritize the medical conditions that are coming in, who’s the most critical, what treatments are needed for that person, will now compound the problem by the fact that there are two patients being presented.
So if the doctor can perform a procedure to save the mother an unintended consequence of that is a baby dies that’s not an abortion, that’s not murder. That’s really one of those kind of red herring issues that opponents of our bill and proponents of abortion in general will throw out there trying to target people’s heartstrings. Oh what about this case, we have to have some exceptions. Usually you see that exceptions are not really exceptional at all.”
(Scott Herndon added): “That question is addressed in the text of the bill. That question is answered with one word: intent. It your intent is to kill a person, then that is where you have crossed the line into murder. If your intent is to save people and someone unintentionally dies as a result of your efforts you have not transgressed any law that this bill creates.”
Question #2: The people present here tonight are from Districts 1 thru 4. Are representatives Green and Scott willing to give names of representatives who are not currently signed on to supporting the bill so we can apply appropriate pressure to them?
Heather Scott: “They’re not going to listen to us, they’re going to listen to you. I suggest you start by sending them all an email asking them where they stand on this bill. It’s AHRA, The Abortion Human Rights Act. Will you be willing to sponsor it? That’s your job as a citizen. You can’t rely on government to do your job as a citizen, sorry to say. It puts us in a really awkward position, because it’s the communication between you and your legislator that determines how that legislator votes, and if not then you go to your community members and remove that legislator.
(Scott Herndon added): “The great news is that I’m not in the legislature, so I actually get to tell you the answer. I have actually sat in a room in this building with 11 legislators from Districts 2, 3, 4 and 1 and I gave them this bill years ago. Heather opened up her eyes first. Former Sen. Dan Forman was in that room and he introduced a version of it when he was the only one in that room at that time who did. That’s your answer, they were given this information in 2016 and they’ve done nothing since then.”
(Heather Scott added): “There’s a difference between taking a lead and supporting. If nobody feels comfortable about taking the lead, that’s fine, I don’t mind taking the lead.”
(Scott Herndon added): “I have something to say about that, if they don’t take the lead, that’s what they’re there for, they are your representatives to represent the actual law in the state of Idaho. If they’re not taking the lead you need to get rid of them and put someone else there.”
Question #3: Unfortunately I was involved in an abortion myself back before I was saved in ’82. Prior to Roe V Wade, how many women went to jail for an illegal abortion.
John Green: “I don’t know of any cases, as a matter of fact. This is kind of a strange thing to have to tell you, is because one of the people that’s fighting us on this bill was very proud of the fact that he has an associate who has done research on prosecutions for abortion in the United States. This is some of the pushback we would get when we tried to ascertain from our colleagues if they were going to support the bill. Although we don’t want mothers to be prosecuted.
“Well this pro-life leader told me they have all the history of every case for the entirety of jurisprudence in United States and in the entire history of the United States no mother had ever been prosecuted for abortion. Period.
“So that’s another one of those red herring things that kind of ties into another question, I’ll just say real quickly, we had to change our strategy a little bit because last time as we were confronting our colleagues, trying to pin them down, they would have some pushback. So Heather Scott and I brainstormed and we came up with some workarounds trying to allay some of those fears and it turns out they were not genuine fears, they just didn’t want this bill to go.”
Question #4: Of all the legislators in this state, do we have any kind of account or percentage of those who would vote for this? And if it got passed what would happen to the mothers who have had an abortion?
John Green: “As Heather just pointed out, and it’s a good point, God needs a minority not a majority, to get this done. Here’s two votes right here, we’re working on others. I know there are others that are with us, but it’s going to be a fight, and we have a lot of work ahead of us.”
(Scott Herndon added): “On the second part, there is no retroactive application. That would never be right or fair and it also actually violates the Constitution. So what happens is, this bill is not criminalizing people, it criminalizes an act or an offense. After it becomes the law then people who commit that act or offense are subject to liability for prosecution. Only those people at some future date and time when this goes into effect.”
Question #5: If this passed, how would you enforce it, if the Supreme Court tells everyone you don’t have to follow this law?
Scott Herndon: “Judges don’t make laws.”
(John Green added): “Here’s the reality of the situation. Until we say we don’t care what the judges say, we don’t care what the lawyers say, babies are going to continue to be murdered.
“Our current attorney general, Lawrence Wasden does not believe that the state of Idaho is a sovereign state. He told Heather and I and a group of other legislators in a meeting that we are a quasi-sovereignty. Now Heather’s and my jaws dropped as did one of our colleagues, the rest of the members of the legislature in that meeting were oblivious to what he had just said.
“We need an attorney general that will understand that we’re sovereign and will tell the governor that we’re sovereign and we need the legislature on board with this which is another story.
“And we need a Governor who will stand up and say we are not doing this anymore, and if we can’t get a Governor like that we need to keep turning them out until we get one.”
(Heather Scott added): “Ultimately, it is the prosecutor in each county that decides this. Now there are only two counties that this is happening in, Boise County and Twin Falls. And that prosecutor can make the decision to follow the law or not. The citizens, if they see he is not enforcing the law, they can remove him since he is in an elected position. We put language in the bill to empower the Atty. Gen., to encourage him to pursue oversight on the prosecutors.”
(Scott Herndon added): “I’ll just make one last comment. There is a video on our website, abolishabortion ID.com, where we had an attorney actually address the question of what happens when you pass the bill and the governor signs it into effect. What would possibly happen? Go to our website, that video is posted there now. He spends 30 minutes addressing that subject. You will be very interested to learn the possible consequences. The bottom line is we can do it. Idaho just has to ask ourselves if we want to pay that price.
“Right now I have one legislator from last year told me she does not want to risk a Civil War. So I said basically, rather than you lay down your life for the babies, you’re asking them to lay down their lives for your comfort. But I don’t think that’s a real possibility, go check out the video on our website.”
See website: abolishabortionID.com